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I walk with ataxic gait. Legs scissor when I walk. I am going to "Vestibular PT". However, when I look up vestibular it comes from the ear and one has nausea, vomitting and dizziness. I HAVE NONE OF THOSE. I go off balance and especially in the dark or when I forgetfully put one foot in front of the other.
Does anyone else have this? Doctor said "you don't have ataxia; you have an ataxic gait. Can anyone clarify for me.
Thanks,
CarolCarol
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Carol,
When you have ataxia your ears and eyes takover your balance. I went to a trike rally two years ago to Idaho we had to ride our trikes through many tunnels the 1st one was 1 1/2 miles long and pitch black. At the end of the ride I returned my trike which I should not have done and a bus brought us back to the 1st tunnel and we had to walk back through the tunnel when I walked 500 yards it got pitch black and I lost my balance because I no longer had my eyes to balance with. |
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I'm a doc and I'm confused too. However, in Dr. Susan Perlman's book "Evaluation and Management of Ataxic Disorders...An Overview For Physicians"(Available through NAF for $5), vertigo and other symptoms are mentioned.
For example, page 10, under the Dominantly Inherited Ataxias Associated Features in Differential Diagnosis, EA-4 is associated with "Episodes of Ataxia with diplopia(double vision) and vertigo..."
Also, in addition to our 5 senses...taste, touch, smell, hear, and see...We have additional senses such as "proprioceptive"(helps brain to determine the increase/decrease of pressure on our joints) and "vestibular"(aids the brain in determining where are bodies are in space). If you have one, or more, compromised senses, then other senses will become more acute to try and compensate. For example, the blind can have very good hearing and a heightened sense of touch (which allows them to read Braille).
Also, in the post above, vision is used to compensate for a decreased or abnormal vestibular sense. Remove vision, and the vestibular issue becomes much more obvious.
Sorry if I confused you more!
SunnyKay 
Everyone Deserves A Great Doc!!! |
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Your docs are using ataxia to describe a condition or symptom. That is a comnon way to use it. That is by far the more common usage than using it to describe a disease or a group of diseases.
But as Sunnykay says, things don't quite add up based on your post.
realistically optimistic
ATILLA 
Mrs. ATILLA still loves me |
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| If Ataxia is my "symptom" why aren't they finding the "cause"?Carol |
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| If Ataxia is my "symptom" why aren't they finding the "cause"?Carol |
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Docs don't know everything. Good ones admit it. Most docs know it. Really bad docs think they know it all
realistically optimistic
ATILLA
Mrs. ATILLA still loves me |
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| I still don't get it. If I have an "ataxic gait" do I have what everyone else calls "ATAXIA". It appears that most people have a "diagnosis" of a type of ataxia.... SC's and things like that. Why am I so confused as to whether or not I have "ATAXIA"? Oh my God, I'm getting too old for this run around from doctors. I want to know WHY? and will it get worse? OR, can it be fixed? Carol |
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It's very stressful, isn't it Granny? In 2006 I was told I had an ataxic gait, slow speech, glazed stare. After blood work and a MRI that showed decreased size in the cerebellum, and of course family history of neurological degeneration,I was told that I had a slow progressive degenerative neurological disorder.
Now in 2010, I'm told that I don't have a ataxic gait. After another MRI, which showed a slight decrease in size of my cerebellum from 2006, more blood work and other tests, still no answers.
I personnaly find my motor skills less, what's the word, " able. There's so much I can't do for any longer then a few minutes. Typing this letter is difficult. Using the mouse is very hard for me. All the things that I do to fill my day are becoming hard to do.
But as long as you can, as long as you can stay strong, mentally and physically, keep looking for the answer.
There's so many people out there who have no answers.......yet. They might never will. There's so much unexplained science. We just have to be patient, I guess. I'm getting old also but my son still has a future.
Bluenoser |
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| You go Bluenoser! I am doing PT for balance and I joined the gym (all of a sudden I want biceps?)kidding! Oh well, I still have no clue what happens now. Therapy and that's it! Amazing! The human body is so complicated that we don't have answers for all the diseases and birth defects, etc. I don't know if mine is hereditary or not... no body said or told me to go for tests. Carol |
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| You go Bluenoser! I am doing PT for balance and I joined the gym (all of a sudden I want biceps?)kidding! Oh well, I still have no clue what happens now. Therapy and that's it! Amazing! The human body is so complicated that we don't have answers for all the diseases and birth defects, etc. I don't know if mine is hereditary or not... no body said or told me to go for tests. Carol |
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hi gammy ,
the confusion with the term ataxia ( meaning without order ) seems to come about because of the differing contexts , intreperetations and definitions in which the word is used
# 1......an ataxic gait.....seamans walk.....wide stance walking to compensate for poor balance . at this stage your docs know you have an ataxic walk that is a symptom of some kind of disorder , but they dont know the cause as yet
# two....Ataxia that is confirmed by cerebellum degeneration ....or other means , genetic testing , family hisory ect....to complicate the matter MRIs do not always show degeneration of the cerebellum
the best way to think of ataxia ( the word ) is that it has two distinct meanings
small a ataxia.....the way a person walks ect
large A Ataxia.....meaning a diagnosis of the disorder Ataxia confirmed by whatever means
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a = ataxia no diagnosed
A - ataxia diagnosed
Only difference is not diagnosed? Does a person need to get it diagnosed since there is no "CURE"? Just go to PT and keep my legs strong is what I hear a lot.
If I didn't have Vertigo before I have it NOW cause my head is swimming with all the vocabulary, definitions, etc. Wheeeeeeee!Carol |
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a = ataxia no diagnosed
A - ataxia diagnosed
Only difference is not diagnosed? Does a person need to get it diagnosed since there is no "CURE"? Just go to PT and keep my legs strong is what I hear a lot.
If I didn't have Vertigo before I have it NOW cause my head is swimming with all the vocabulary, definitions, etc. Wheeeeeeee!Carol |
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hi gammy ,
a = ataxic walk ....as in you have an ataxic gait meaning it is caused by an as yet undianosed problem......an ataxic gait is different from having Ataxia the disorder
i know its confusing .....this is the best explanation i can give
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then the walk one should change its name to something else. Too confusing. However on research I see "vestibular" is ataxia and I was told mine is vestibular. Now is that small a or Big A?
I am trying to sort this out as I feel my balance is worse. I can no longer reach up into the cupboard or the clothesline on my toes cause I would fall forward. Carol |
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hi gammy ,
yes , i agree....instead of using the term ' ataxic walk ' to describe a patients gait , another term would be less confusing
far as i know vestibular refers to the inner ear which does help to control balance ect , i have never heard of vestibular Ataxia
copy n paste
The vestibular system, which contributes to our balance and our sense of spatial orientation, is the sensory system that provides the dominant input about movement and equilibrioception. Together with the cochlea, a part of the auditory system, it constitutes the labyrinth of the inner ear, situated in the vestibulum in the inner ear (Figure 1). As our movements consist of rotations and translations, the vestibular system comprises two components: the semicircular canal system, which indicate rotational movements; and the otoliths, which indicate linear accelerations. The vestibular system sends signals primarily to the neural structures that control our eye movements, and to the muscles that keep us upright. The projections to the former provide the anatomical basis of the vestibulo-ocular reflex, which is required for clear vision; and the projections to the muscles that control our posture are necessary to keep us upright.
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Oh Boy Teddy Boy! If it is my EAR then why haven't any of these doctors sent me to an EAR DOCTOR? Talk about more confusing. I will now go to a new neurologist (mine left town) and ask for an ear doctor appointment. Maybe they can fix my ear????Carol
I just read there are 3 types of ataxia: Cerebellar, Sensory and Vestibular. So that says I have Ataxia with a big A.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataxia#Vestibular_ataxia |
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howdy gammy ,
the ataxic world is full of contradictions , overlaps , confusing jargon , brilliant neuros ( in their own minds ) and poor buggers like me trying to make sense of it all
i must admit i never tried to explain , in a few words my understanding of it all ( perhaps im all wrong....hold on to your hat....this has gotta be interesting )
first off lets substitute stumble bum walk ( SBW ) for the term ataxic gait
there are heaps of disorders that have the SBW as a symptom.....wilsons , picks , MS , some parkinsons , gillian bar , marie charott .....i could fill up the page
these and all the others im too lazy to type have the SBW in common with Ataxia but are not the big A Ataxic disorder.....many have overlapping symptoms of Ataxia.....this is why neuros sometimes have a hard time diagnosing Ataxia , so many other disorders mimic it or vise versa
many times the only way a neuro has to diagnose what disorder a paitient has is to play the waiting game.......wait to see if other symptoms show up or the initial symptom resolves itself , this can be why they seem in no hurry..... after initial investigations reveal nothing obvious...." see you in 6 months or a year "
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sorry......puter froze.....i think it knew its lunchtime
vestibular
the wikipedia link you supplied uses large A and small a ......small a for vestibular
from wiki link
The term vestibular ataxia ( note small a used.... read as SBW ) is employed to indicate ataxia due to dysfunction of the vestibular system, which in acute and unilateral cases is associated with prominent vertigo, nausea and vomiting. In slow-onset, chronic bilateral cases of vestibular dysfunction, these characteristic manifestations may be absent, and dysequilibrium may be the sole presentation
this answers your original question
before my puter froze i was going to comment about the ear doc.... when you see your new neuro you should get a referal to an ENT if he also thinks your problem is vestibular...... maybe the original neuro was playing the waiting game
an ENT can look for otolith dysfunction which with other inner ear issues can cause balance and muscle problems
i dont think you have capital A ataxia ( on the present evidence )....you have vestibular SBW :
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